Conference Shake Up 2.0

[RoyalShock]

While there are a few options that might make the MVC stronger, I think the odds of getting 2-3 of them are slim. And unless those additions result in more NCAA tournament games, you're spreading that revenue over more schools - some of whom depend on it more than others - thereby making the conference weaker overall. And if any additions are done due to CU leaving, there's no way the MVC doesn't get weaker.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done if it becomes necessary, just that there's very little upside. It would be a survival move.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Yeah, I'd go ORU, Belmont and Murray St. Wright would make my Option B list. If the MVC loses CU it would do a lot of damage to not only the conference RPI but also the perceived quality of the conference. Because of that, we need to add members that give us an immediate boost, not add up-and-comers that might benefit from inclusion in the MVC more than the MVC benefits from including them.

[SubGod22]

Did you drop Murray St?

Not on purpose.

I do believe that Belmont and maybe even ORU could add value right away. Not at the level of CU, but would allow the MVC not to fall and could be in play for bids.

I do think that 12 could actually give us a better shot at more bids as it would prevent certain schools from having to play twice. On the flip side you could say that would hurt due to less in conference RPI boosts.

But the more teams we get in, and teams that can win games, the more money for all. I wouldn't be for adding three or four based solely on potential, but if you're looking at the third or fourth add, depending on spots needed, you could take a shot on that one.

Belmont would bring value. Very solid program that dominated the ASun and appears to have stepped into the OVC and taken charge. On top of that they're in Nashville which could help the MVC in some ways as well.

Murray St has been at the top of the OVC recently and seems like a decent program. Market value is little but is a strong program.

ORU I think would bring a little name recognition and decent market. Also, it's been a very solid program and has shown the ability to compete at a higher level.

Wright State has been pretty solid, not as much as the other three, but also brings in Dayton, OH. Basketball is a big deal in that city and it could help recruiting and exposure for the MVC in that area.

All four could compete in the upper half of the conference I think. And given a few years of recruiting and exposure in the MVC could solidify themselves there and be threats at the NCAAs just about every year.

Valpo is also a pretty solid program in an area that loves basketball.

I could see at least two of these schools being a threat to Dance every year if three were added. What this conference really needs is for both Bradley and Illinois State to keep building. I think they can.

At 10, with CU, we should be a 3-4 bid conference. But that requires BU, ISU and ISUb to keep building on what they have. I know the past few years we've struggled to be more than 1 bid but that comes down to the scheduling mandate in my mind. Teams scheduled weaker when it was dropped and so did our reputation. With that coming back, I see 2 bids being a bad year.

Now, if we lost CU and only added one, I still think those bid numbers should remain. Maybe the seeding changes, but I don't think the numbers should. Now, if we went to 12, I would say 2 should be a horrid year and 4 more of the norm instead of the high end. In three or four years I could see WSU, ISU and BU being more regular than not. Add Belmont to that and that's four legit threats on any given year. I'd be surprised if three of the four didn't make it every year. And that's not even talking about UNI (solid program), ISUb (been improving), ORU (solid program), Murray St (solid program), Wright St (decent program) and/or Valpo (decent program).

Maybe I'm a little overly optimistic about it all, but I do feel that the MVC is trending upward and programs are improving. Both ISU and BU are in good shape with their leadership and coaching. ISUb will be solid as long as Lansing is there. After that, who knows. UNI appears to remain a solid program for awhile as I don't see Jake leaving anytime soon. SIU will improve under Hinson. I could see them becoming a regular in the RPI 100 in three or four years. Drake and UE concern me. But outside of that, I think we can be fairly strong and think 12 is a good number for the future.

I do think with the loss of CU and the addition of say ORU, Belmont and Wright State, we'd be looking at 3-5 bids in say four or so years. Probably 3-4 most years.

[ABC]

In my current thinking, today, if we lost CU, I'm still all for going to 12 and adding ORU (Tulsa, OK), Belmont (Nashville, TN) and Wright State (Dayton, OH). If UE left, I'd consider Valpo and Milwaukee. I think Little Rock still has some work to do.

None of those sound like great options, in my opinion. WSU is in a tough spot.

[SubGod22]

There are no great options. But there are some good options. Belmont and ORU are likely to be RPI 100 programs. The others are capable of being that more often than not. All are good to decent programs.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

ISUb actually concerns me. Yes, they are good this year, but if I remember right they are towards the bottom of the MVC in bball spending so I'm sure Lansing makes peanuts. ISUr is also surprisingly in the bottom half of the league in spending. Neither school has a good blueprint for sustained success. UNI's athletic department is practically bankrupt; how they keep that ship afloat--and keep a pretty good team on the court most years--astounds me. Either they're the Son of Enron or someone in their finance department deserves a Nobel Prize. Drake is, well, Drake and Evansville is worse. MSU has a lot of potential, but they can't even afford locker rooms in their barn and seem more concerned about raising their football profile.

We're going to have to count on Bradley and SIU helping to raise the tide in the Valley--which I think they can do and are a year or two away from sustained success, with good coaches, good recruiting, and decent resources. I do agree that by adding ORU, Belmont, and Murray, you add teams that are capable of an NCAA bid in any given year, or at the very least would be in the discussion. If any of those schools could help us achieve at the very least a two bid conference every single year, and three more often than not, they are worth the price of admission.

[GoShockers89]

I know the past few years we've struggled to be more than 1 bid but that comes down to the scheduling mandate in my mind. Teams scheduled weaker when it was dropped and so did our reputation. With that coming back, I see 2 bids being a bad year.

Whoa, did I miss something? Did someone re implement the SoS requirement?

[MadDog]

I still think we raid the remnants of the A10 (assuming the A10 loses Dayton,SLU, Xavier and Butler) and we lose CU. vCU, Richmond, St Joes, LaSalle. All four are bigger names, better programs, and better markets. Plus if the A10 gets raided like we think it will, it will be much worse than the MVC. Lets raid it, and finish it off!

[SubGod22]

Whoa, did I miss something? Did someone re implement the SoS requirement?

It goes into effect completely I believe the year after next. Schools were made aware of it and given a couple of years to beef up their schedules.

[GoShockers89]

It goes into effect completely I believe the year after next. Schools were made aware of it and given a couple of years to beef up their schedules.

FANTASTIC news, thanks.

[SubGod22]

I still think we raid the remnants of the A10 (assuming the A10 loses Dayton,SLU, Xavier and Butler) and we lose CU. vCU, Richmond, St Joes, LaSalle. All four are bigger names, better programs, and better markets. Plus if the A10 gets raided like we think it will, it will be much worse than the MVC. Lets raid it, and finish it off!

No way that happens. They're too far away and the poorer schools would object. Plus, those A10 schools you mention are going to target the CAA and Horizon to get them where they need to be. They should be weaker than us, but it shouldn't take a huge drop. I believe the closest A10 school that won't be taken is in Pittsburgh. Convince the poorer schools to go there or east of there in all sports...

[MadDog]

Sub, can you tell me, have any of your favorites here ever had an at-large bid or have they ever been ranked? Murray St., ranked for sure. Probably not at at-large. The rest of them? No. Just because they are in a big city does not mean they have potential. You have to have done something significant, and done it recently. I see no potential in the Horizon conference... when they lost Butler, they lost everything. The CAA has George Mason and nothing else. VCU is gone and ODU not only is one of the worst teams in all of D1 this year, but I think they are moving to Conf USA to play football. The A10 isn't going to find much potential in Bill and Mary.

Distance from Evansville to Richmond = 681 miles. Distance from Evansville to Wichita 614 miles.
Roundtrip Airfare from Evansville to Richmond = $ 491. Roundtrip airfare Evansville to Wichita $566

Assuming east-west divisions, I don't see that much difference.

Yeah, if we want to insure we become the next Horizon conference, then lets start picking up Horizon schools. If we want to be like the A10, then lets grab A10 schools.

[ShockTalk]

Sub, can you tell me, have any of your favorites here ever had an at-large bid or have they ever been ranked? Murray St., ranked for sure. Probably not at at-large. The rest of them? No. Just because they are in a big city does not mean they have potential. You have to have done something significant, and done it recently. I see no potential in the Horizon conference... when they lost Butler, they lost everything. The CAA has George Mason and nothing else. VCU is gone and ODU not only is one of the worst teams in all of D1 this year, but I think they are moving to Conf USA to play football. The A10 isn't going to find much potential in Bill and Mary.

Distance from Evansville to Richmond = 681 miles. Distance from Evansville to Wichita 614 miles.
Roundtrip Airfare from Evansville to Richmond = $ 491. Roundtrip airfare Evansville to Wichita $566

Assuming east-west divisions, I don't see that much difference.

Yeah, if we want to insure we become the next Horizon conference, then lets start picking up Horizon schools. If we want to be like the A10, then lets grab A10 schools.

Sub can answer you as well, however, from my view point, the teams we are talking about are not in conferences that are going to get two bids. If the top team doesn't win their post season tourney, they're pretty much toast, right or wrong.

If those same top teams enter the Valley, they should recruit even better than before. Their RPI will see a boost due to the other Valley teams and very good new additions. Then they would be in a position to be considered for an at-large.

[MadDog]

We need teams that will improve the Valley, not teams the Valley will improve. That's everyone's gripe with the Evansville's of the conference. We brought them up (a little), and they brought the conference down a notch. Murray is the only one of the 4 that could offer a win-win. Belmont is another Winthrop, a one coach wonder. ORU hasn't been relevant since the 70's. wright st has never been relevant in anything.

[SubGod22]

You're NOT getting those A10 schools that you mention. On top of the poor sisters not agreeing to them, they aren't going to agree to be part of a midwest league that increases their travel.

Belmont has been a very solid program and in a better conference, will only get better. Wright State has had some good teams and are in a very good recruiting area. ORU has won some big games within the last decade and has been better than half the Valley. Same with Belmont. We aren't adding anyone who will come in and immediately challenge for the top spot, but teams that can be upper half teams and make the conference better. I have more questions about Murray than I do Belmont and ORU to be honest. Plus, they also have football that they put money into. That could be a concern that the others don't have to worry about so the increase in monies will go into basketball first.

The only possible A10 teams we could get if left out would be SLU and/or Dayton. Dayton from what I hear would most likely stick with their east coast conference and SLU may do the same. None of the others are options.

Face it, this is how additions/expansion work. You target the top teams or those with the most potential from the conferences just beneath you and take from there. You may not think the travel is an issue, but if we're going E/W, do you think the poor east schools are going to agree to that and NOT reduce their traveling by flying out to the coast for everything? Not gonna happen. WSU wouldn't care, Evansville and the like do.