Conference Shake Up 2.0

[SubGod22]

Interesting; I hadn't considered that before. Is UTEP still in the WAC? I can't even keep things straight anymore.

The problem with expansion for the "poorer" teams is not just the travel; it is that the money the conference receive for NCAA tourney units. The more the teams, the smaller each team's proportional share becomes. They need every penny now... But, limiting their travel expenses might help make expansion work...

BTW, does it appear to anybody else that Bradley went from one of the "haves" to one of the "have nots" rather suddenly? They vote against the Dallas Baptist decision, they won't agree to pay Les his buyout (and he has to sue) and they refused to pay Ford's buyout when they pulled him from Kent St, which is pretty customary nowadays, resulting in Kent St suing Ford. Seems like they are penny pinching galore so many of their eastern MVC brethren. Unlike many of the schools that are broke, Bradley has good attendance (3rd in the conference year after year) and donor support (at least I thought they did), so I don't understand what the problem is there.

UTEP is in CUSA. If we had a UTEP/NMSU addition that would be pretty solid as well.

I understand about splitting money more ways, but I think these two teams could help bump up bids and then it's all about winning. I could see every team getting more money more years than not as NMSU could easily be an at-large worthy team most years and Denver is moving in a positive direction. The only other team to the west I could see s Arlington. And really, that's just south of us and travel to NMSU is still quite far. But Arlington is also investing in basketball and moving in the right direction.

As far as Bradley goes, I'm not sure what's going on. The Les and Ford things were odd and attendance isn't poor so you'd think money wouldn't be a huge issue for them. I keep thinking that in a couple of years they'd be back towards to top of the Valley as I think Ford is a good coach. But if they're having issues and won't invest in the program, then we've lost one of the few schools I thought was capable of trying to push the Valley forward. As it is, WSU and CU will continue to do what is necessary. I think Illinois State is about to rebound and will get fans back this year and in the immediate future. After that, I'm not sure what to think. UNI doesn't have the budget, but they've managed to work with it for now. If Jake ever leaves, who knows what happens. One bad hire would doom them to the depths that they probably belong. MSU won't invest and the fans don't seem to care that much anyway based off of attendance. Drake I have no hope for. Evansville sucks. I'm not sure Indiana State really has it in them. SIU is in a dark place right now.

I think that's why I like the thought of NMSU so much. A very solid basketball school that has a fairly decent athletic department and would only help the Valley by giving us another team capable of top 50 finishes on any given year. The only question is would being a football independent kill what they've done in other sports? That and if an offer ever came from the MWC they'd jump on it. But I couldn't blame them for that. I'd jump on that offer if we got it too.

[SubGod22]

I just read where Denver has, in the past, offered travel incentives to the WCC for inclusion. I wonder if they did that with the MVC, if some of the poorer schools would be more open to it? I'd never thought about the travel incentives before even though I know Hawaii has done it and it's the only way that Boise got into the Big West recently.

[ShockTalk]

I think that's why I like the thought of NMSU so much. A very solid basketball school that has a fairly decent athletic department and would only help the Valley by giving us another team capable of top 50 finishes on any given year. The only question is would being a football independent kill what they've done in other sports? That and if an offer ever came from the MWC they'd jump on it. But I couldn't blame them for that. I'd jump on that offer if we got it too.

NMSU's basketball history far exceeds football, but I can understand them not wanting to hurt it more. In basketball, they've seen 18 NCAA Tournament appearances, 5 NIT Tournament appearances and 15 conference championships. As for football, they've only had 4 winning seasons since 1967. I like the idea of adding a former MVC member of about 13 seasons plus Denver.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I'd be biting my nails for a DU/NMSU invite to the MVC if anybody but Elgin were minding the house. I'm convinced instead of being proactive he's just going to sit around watching the conference landscape shift around us, and at the end wonder why no one wanted to jump on the MVC bandwagon.

Both these schools have a lot to offer and could create a strong western division for the MVC. If Elgin were smart, he'd start thinking about what's best for the conference instead of what's best for the weak sisters. Some of those schools need to be "disinvited."

[SubGod22]

The problem is when it comes to a vote, the have-nots probabaly outnumber the rest anymore. It'd be close, but I still think it needs to be approached. I think these additions would almost guarnatee multiple bids every year. I could see bad years being 2 with us getting 3-5 bids many times.

WSU, CU, NMSU and perhaps ISU could be threats for years to come. Then teams like MSU, UNI and Denver could be in contention from time to time. I wish we had a more proactive commish instead of the reactive one we have now.

Not to mention that a major power shift to the west could get the conference moved to KC.

[ShockTalk]

Unfortunately, it's the weak sisters that control the ship and Bradley may have been added to that list. Without football and with their locations, WSU and CU have little leverage to leave. Love to see those schools reaction if WSU announced they were bringing back football and CU got some serious interest from the A-10.

Also, with BU's latest actions, I'm not sure which group of schools look better: Horizon w/o Butler or MVC w/o WSU and CU. Just how would the Horizon look with WSU, CU, abd Denver?

[SubGod22]

Unfortunately, it's the weak sisters that control the ship and Bradley may have been added to that list. Without football and with their locations, WSU and CU have little leverage to leave. Love to see those schools reaction if WSU announced they were bringing back football and CU got some serious interest from the A-10.

Also, with BU's latest actions, I'm not sure which group of schools look better: Horizon w/o Butler or MVC w/o WSU and CU. Just how would the Horizon look with WSU, CU, abd Denver?

The Horizon has some solid schools, but lack any top notch schools with the loss of Butler.

You'd be looking at Cleveland State, Detroit, Green Bay, Chicago, Milwaukee, Valpo, Wright State and Youngstown State.

CSU is a decent basketball program but I've heard their financial situation isn't the greatest. Detroit hasn't done what was expected when they hired their current coach and he landed a couple of top 100 talents. Green Bay would be middle of the Valley. Some think Chicago has potential. Milwaukee I think has potential. Valpo hasn't done much since the Bryce Drew days. Wright State is pretty solid and could have potential. Youngstown sucks.

However, if you're comparing that group to the Valley without CU and WSU... Bradley, lots of potential but little to show for it recently and recent events raise questions. Drake, fine history but not much going for it. Evansville is Evansville, nowhere to go but down. Illinois State I think is moving in the right direction and could be pretty nice at least in the immediate future. Indiana State I don't have a lot of confidence in. Missouri State is a bad hire away from falling apart. They won't invest. UNI is probably in the same boat as MSU but has been more stable lately. Southern is in a bad place and is financially strapped.

I don't know what the financial and support issues may be for Horizon schools, but I don't see a lot of difference really. Outside of Wichita and Creighton anyway. The Horizon would be jumping over the states of Iowa and Missouri in order to get to us. Right now, it's a pretty tight geographical fit. Most rumors have Denver guaranteed a spot in the Summit if nothing else happens for them. That is not an attractive conference.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I wouldn't mind Detroit. Good sized city that is a true hotbed for recruiting. Same feelings for Milwaukee, although I'm not really pining for either school.

I'd take NMSU. I also like the idea of trying to pull UTEP to come with NMSU as a package deal, but I'm not sure they would want to abandon football.

I'm not sure on Denver. They are pretty new to D1 and when the dust finally settles, they may reveal themselves as no more than a Drake or Evansville. They do come with a decent sized city, but it is a lot farther away then it seems and very rarely produces much in the way of basketball talent. There is a reason they have to offer travel incentives in that they don't currently bring a lot to the table.

I don't blame Elgin as much on this deal as there really aren't any schools that are screaming out, "I should be added" now that Butler is gone.

[SubGod22]

The one thing I definitely like about Denver is they are actually investing in their athletic department. That's why I feel more comfortable about them than I do Evansville. It's also why I like them more than Belmont, who I've mentioned in the past as a possibility. Maybe Belmont invests more than I realize as I haven't seen the numbers...

I just want to see us look to improve. We have too many schools that are happy to do what they're doing and collect the money that'll be earned by other teams. I'd rather be associated with more schools that will invest in basketball and try to be better.

Elgin's biggest issue in my mind is that he won't consider expansion without SLU. I really do believe that's his mindset. My other fear is that if he does move on without SLU, it'll be the Dakota schools because they play football in the MVFC. That's not going to do much of anything to strengthen the conference.

This is one reason I wish we had football. At least there's potential for more options to leave. And if there were more options available for us and CU, I think the MVC would do more to strengthen the conference in some way. Because if one or both ever leave, the MVC takes a big step backwards.

[SubGod22]

New Orleans will be joining the Southland.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

The one thing I definitely like about Denver is they are actually investing in their athletic department. That's why I feel more comfortable about them than I do Evansville. It's also why I like them more than Belmont, who I've mentioned in the past as a possibility. Maybe Belmont invests more than I realize as I haven't seen the numbers...

Most definitely. DU brings interesting things to the table--some of which honestly aren't a great fit for the MVC. For instance, DU is a perennial national power in college hockey and has more NHL alums than you can shake a stick at, and regularly fields some impressive lacrosse teams. But @SubGod22, you nailed it--this is a school that invests heavily in their athletic program, and those are the kinds of schools the MVC needs to be courting. DU may not have a long history of basketball success, but you can be sure they will be doing everything they can to change that. That's a hell of a lot better than a school having a rich tradition but seems content on throwing it away (*cough*...Bradley...*cough*).

And let's be honest, I want that WSU road game 6 miles from my house every year...

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Has our new president spoke on this subject?

[SubGod22]

Has our new president spoke on this subject?

Not that I've seen. I've seen talk about what to do to move our athletic program forward by improving things or investing more and the brief talk that football will be addressed at some point. But nothing along the lines of this.

[SubGod22]

The more I read about the WAC and the Big Sky the more I think Denver would look good in the MVC and would be willing to pay a pretty decent travel package to get in. Rumor has it that the Big Sky would make them and Seattle add football to join and think they have few if any options.

New Mexico State would still be my first choice, but they're a bigger flight risk since they want a home for football and if the MWC loses anyone else, the Aggies may be the first call.

And there are still rumors out there that Arlington may start football up. Would that be attractive for the MVFC? Would getting into Texas be a benefit at the FCS level? Would football hurt the progress they're making in basketball? Would it help?

[SubGod22]

Patriot League adds Loyola (MD) for '13-'14