Legalize marijuana

[Kung Wu]

These studies are correlative. One could just as easily say that people that are prone to addiction start addictive habits earlier in life. The addictive substance has to do with accessibility. Drugs should not be accessible to children.

GH has a correlation problem, and that's the common knock on it. That's also why I didn't call it out as good argument.

CLA, however, has a completely different empirical foundation. It is, in my opinion, the foundation for which all drug addiction studies will eventually stand on. It does not suffer from correlation problems like GH.

100% agree that availability of addictive substances to children should be the key driver of political and legal debate. It isn't the only concern but it's the most important.

[Shockm]

100% agree that availability of addictive substances to children should be the key driver of political and legal debate. It isn't the only concern but it's the most important.

To add to this part of your statement, I agree, and Ms Stack in her written articles, said that Colorado ( a recreational marijuana State) has an enforcement problem with underage kids. Kid’s can easily get the marijuana even though they can’t do it legally.

[shoxlax]

The CLA (Common Liability of Addiction) model is a competing theory to Gateway hypothesis, and has a much stronger foundation (academically speaking). The results are pretty substantial: Using any substance early on results in a higher potential to abuse other drugs later. In other words, all drugs are "gateway" drugs to each other.

Early use of X leads to a higher probability of abusing Y.

Substitute any substances that can be abused for X and Y: alcohol, marijuana, pain medications, cocaine, etc.

It really is that simple.

Micro-economically it may not seem like a big deal. Macro-economically it can be a disaster.

Nicotine may top the list as the starting point, touted as being as addictive as cocaine, alcohol or heroin in many studies. You talk about lighting your paycheck on fire…..

[Kung Wu]

Nicotine may top the list as the starting point, touted as being as addictive as cocaine, alcohol or heroin in many studies. You talk about lighting your paycheck on fire…..

Hell, I wonder about sugar.

[WuShockFan]

And also again, I don't care what you do in your home, just don't let it affect me.

I used to live in a duplex where the other side of the duplex was occupied by heavy weed smokers. When I first moved in to this duplex, it was different residents on the other side. I had no issues with those people other than occasional noise. Then these weed smokers moved in. I would wake up in the middle of the night with my nostrils and throat burning. This was a nice, modern duplex built in the 2000s. The weed they were smoking over there was strong enough to come through the walls and affect my breathing enough that it woke me up from sleep and caused my nostrils and throat to burn for hours. I had to move out because of it. It is nasty stuff. It has this nasty skunk smell that permeates everything. You can smell it on the clothes of people who smoke it.

Weed smoking causes lung problems and cardiovascular problems just like cigarettes do. And it affects other people through secondhand smoke.

In my opinion, weed is just another progressive fad that a certain group of people think is moving society forward. When in reality, it's not.

[Shockm]

https://www.clearbrookinc.com/news/m...-homelessness/

There are lot's of articles on this issue, and the unintended consequence of homelessness by recreational legalized marijuana

Legalized Marijuana Causing Higher Rates Of Homelessness

Advocates for the drug’s legalization even claim that doing so would benefit our society, by aiding in major health issues, reducing crime, and increasing revenue for states over time. Some have even gone as far to suggest marijuana as a treatment for opioid addiction. Like many other addictive drugs, its selling points are one-sided at best. Proponents fail to mention what legalization has created in states, such as Colorado.

Major news networks around the country have been featuring a story that is slowly becoming the reality for many parts of Colorado. A surge in homelessness has occurred over the last several years, especially after the legalization of marijuana for recreational use. This is especially the case in a small Colorado town called Durango. So why exactly has pot legalization transformed certain towns into magnets for panhandling and homelessness, and where do we go from here?
Once A Vibrant Town, Turns To A Vagrant City


A town that was once known for its resorts and luxury hotels, is now littered with the homeless and loiterers. And, while this transformation could be blamed on many things, many store owners and citizens believe the uptick happened after marijuana was legalized. Some panhandlers cut straight to the point, by flat out asking for marijuana, or holding up a cardboard sign with a pot leaf on it. What’s more, many of these individuals who find themselves begging for change are kids from out of state, such as Arizona, New Mexico, and even New York. While the argument is that marijuana will increase state revenue, most of these kids never find employment, and rather flood the streets begging for a few extra dollars.

[WuDrWu]

Maybe one of our neighbors to the west can clarify:

So in Colorado, when the growers/cultivators sell to the distributors, they must collect a 15% tax.

Then when the distributor sells to the public, they must collect a 10% state weed tax, plus the state sales tax (I think 2.9%) plus any local sales tax or locally administered weed tax (if there are any).

So for each $100 of weed, the various government levels in Colorado will see about $30 in tax revenue.....am I understanding that correctly? (There is conflicting information as far as I can tell, even on the the state's own website).

According to the census, approx 5.8 million live in Colorado and 21.9% are 18 and under. I'm going to use 6 million total and 25% under 21 for ease of computing. Those numbers should be fairly close.

75% of 6 million is 4.5 million adults. A 2019 Gallup poll says 12% smoke weed. Let's double that number for Colorado. 24% of 4.5 is 1.08 million. Let's round up to 1.1 million. Latest revenue numbers for CO were 2 billion. That's about $1800 per user per year. I know there are all kinds of strains etc but how many joints do you get from $150 worth of weed (about 1 month of average Colorado adult usage)?

[SubGod22]

I'm not Googling that on my work computer. But there's also quite a tourism portion of sales as well. I know people who will travel there every so often and pick up some edibles to use as needed. Not to mention the people from all over the country that will also travel for other recreational activities and partake in the product. Let's also remember that not everyone is smoking it. Edibles are used by a lot of people as there are people who simply don't enjoy smoking in general, or don't like the smell and don't want to deal with that aspect.

I also don't know how joints compare to edibles on potency or value for your dollar. I would guess that they would be relatively equivalent.

[wufan]

https://www.clearbrookinc.com/news/m...-homelessness/

There are lot's of articles on this issue, and the unintended consequence of homelessness by recreational legalized marijuana

Legalized Marijuana Causing Higher Rates Of Homelessness

Advocates for the drug’s legalization even claim that doing so would benefit our society, by aiding in major health issues, reducing crime, and increasing revenue for states over time. Some have even gone as far to suggest marijuana as a treatment for opioid addiction. Like many other addictive drugs, its selling points are one-sided at best. Proponents fail to mention what legalization has created in states, such as Colorado.

Major news networks around the country have been featuring a story that is slowly becoming the reality for many parts of Colorado. A surge in homelessness has occurred over the last several years, especially after the legalization of marijuana for recreational use. This is especially the case in a small Colorado town called Durango. So why exactly has pot legalization transformed certain towns into magnets for panhandling and homelessness, and where do we go from here?
Once A Vibrant Town, Turns To A Vagrant City


A town that was once known for its resorts and luxury hotels, is now littered with the homeless and loiterers. And, while this transformation could be blamed on many things, many store owners and citizens believe the uptick happened after marijuana was legalized. Some panhandlers cut straight to the point, by flat out asking for marijuana, or holding up a cardboard sign with a pot leaf on it. What’s more, many of these individuals who find themselves begging for change are kids from out of state, such as Arizona, New Mexico, and even New York. While the argument is that marijuana will increase state revenue, most of these kids never find employment, and rather flood the streets begging for a few extra dollars.

I think this is a good example of unintended consequences. So then, did pot create the homeless or did something else? Is Durango the only place experiencing this problem?

Not enough data, but most likely there is a multi-level problem here that needs to be addressed, similar to the multi-level problem that needs to be addressed by incarceration of pot smokers.

[wufan]

I used to live in a duplex where the other side of the duplex was occupied by heavy weed smokers. When I first moved in to this duplex, it was different residents on the other side. I had no issues with those people other than occasional noise. Then these weed smokers moved in. I would wake up in the middle of the night with my nostrils and throat burning. This was a nice, modern duplex built in the 2000s. The weed they were smoking over there was strong enough to come through the walls and affect my breathing enough that it woke me up from sleep and caused my nostrils and throat to burn for hours. I had to move out because of it. It is nasty stuff. It has this nasty skunk smell that permeates everything. You can smell it on the clothes of people who smoke it.

Weed smoking causes lung problems and cardiovascular problems just like cigarettes do. And it affects other people through secondhand smoke.

In my opinion, weed is just another progressive fad that a certain group of people think is moving society forward. When in reality, it's not.

What did you do about the issue? This doesn’t sound like a tenable situation.

[BOBB]

I think this is a good example of unintended consequences. So then, did pot create the homeless or did something else? Is Durango the only place experiencing this problem?

Not enough data, but most likely there is a multi-level problem here that needs to be addressed, similar to the multi-level problem that needs to be addressed by incarceration of pot smokers.

Correlation is not causation. There’s tremendous homeless problems all over the country. Mental illness and opioids/fentanyl/meth certainly exacerbate it. I’d also allow that early surges of some of these folks to colorado towns came with legalization, but you can go any number of places with legal weed now.

If you want the chronic homeless off the street you’re going t have to put them in housing, jail, or mental institutions. I’m ok with any of those three though I think housing may be the cheapest.

[Shockm]

I think this is a good example of unintended consequences. So then, did pot create the homeless or did something else? Is Durango the only place experiencing this problem?

Not enough data, but most likely there is a multi-level problem here that needs to be addressed, similar to the multi-level problem that needs to be addressed by incarceration of pot smokers.

Ok. Not enough data to know for sure. You seem to have made up your mind on drugs already and are willing to ignore any data that doesn't fit your narrative. Legalizing and making drugs recreational is somewhat new, and the states who are doing it are the experiments. These criticisms, and articles, largely come from people who live in Colorado, and Oregon, and there are lot's of articles that are critical. The sad thing is that people's willingness to ignore their criticisms could be part of a problem.

Too many states are moving too fast to get it right.

[wufan]

Ok. Not enough data to know for sure. You seem to have made up your mind on drugs already and are willing to ignore any data that doesn't fit your narrative. Legalizing and making drugs recreational is somewhat new, and the states who are doing it are the experiments. These criticisms, and articles, largely come from people who live in Colorado, and Oregon, and there are lot's of articles that are critical. The sad thing is that people's willingness to ignore their criticisms could be part of a problem.

Too many states are moving too fast to get it right.

You haven’t addressed my argument, which is that the freedom of the individual is the most important thing. All actions have externalities, and a single story of a single town (or 10 stories about 10 towns) would not demonstrate that legalization externalities are worse than criminalization externalities.

What data do you have that shows that individual rights are a bad thing?

[Shockm]

You haven’t addressed my argument, which is that the freedom of the individual is the most important thing. All actions have externalities, and a single story of a single town (or 10 stories about 10 towns) would not demonstrate that legalization externalities are worse than criminalization externalities.

What data do you have that shows that individual rights are a bad thing?

What data do you have that these articles written by Coloradans are untrue? They say that their freedom to quality of life issues in Colorado has been ignored to accommodate the state receiving tax monies and pot heads easily receiving their drugs.

I know McPherson and there are none of these social problems there.

[wufan]

What data do you have that these articles written by Coloradans are untrue? They say that their freedom to quality of life issues in Colorado has been ignored to accommodate the state receiving tax monies and pot heads easily receiving their drugs.

I know McPherson and there are none of these social problems there.

Do you? We have homeless and meth even in McPherson, but that’s not the issue. You don’t have a control group. You don’t even have correlation, what you have is a subjective narrative that fits your supposition. In order to demonstrate that this is an issue, you would have to have the same issue in every town in every state that has legal marijuana vs every town in every state that does not. Then you would have to remove every other possible reason. As an example, there is a very strong correlation on beaches between ice cream sales and shark attacks. What do you make of that?

How’s Omaha doing?