Biden

[Shockm]

So you don’t understand the difference? You just looked it up and wrote it down without thinking about it? Stance on issues is not what makes you conservative or progressive, it’s the philosophy that leads you to a conclusion on issues that defines your political compass.

Pragmatism? Your lack of understanding of a pragmatic conservative, or liberal, etc. shows something maybe? and maybe says something about our political quagmire. Even a very principled man like Ronald Reagan understood the need for pragmatism.

[wufan]

I understand just fine. You consistently misquote people, and when asked simple straight forward questions you refuse to respond. You have a cognitive dissidence in your logic and you hide it behind pragmatism.

[SubGod22]

Wrong. You have been clear on police, and drugs, but unclear on abortion issues, borders, Antifa rioting, just off the top of my head.

I've said elsewhere if you want my thoughts, just ask.

Clear on police? Yes. I believe in accountability when they do wrong. Can't believe you don't agree with that. But some people see them as above the law, like you apparently do. I'm also good with my belief as every cop I know believes as I do. I've had a number of conversations with a handful of them that are either friends or good acquaintances, and they all believe bad cops should be stripped of their badge and prosecuted. And there are good/decent cops that make bad mistakes. But mistakes shouldn't be shrugged off with no action like they too often are for police. If I make a horrible mistake that ruins someones life I'm going to pay for it, but many with a badge keep their jobs and get promotions afterwards and are continually protected, which makes it harder for good cops to do their jobs as it creates more distrust in communities.

Drugs? Yes, I believe adults should be allowed to make decisions for themselves in what they choose to put into their body. That's not infringing on anyone else's rights. Some will fall back on the fact that some addicts end up committing other crimes, and those crimes should be prosecuted. But alcohol also makes people do bad things. And there are a lot of sober people who do bad things. Placing blame totally on drugs and criminalizing the majority who aren't going to commit the crimes you're so afraid that they will is ridiculous. That would be like banning guns or cars because a small minority abuse them or hurt others because of them. But we're not making cars and guns illegal are we?

Abortion? Delicate subject that I'm conflicted on, as I do believe in people making their own decisions and I worry about gov't having too much authority over us. Though on a personal level I find abortion, in most cases, abhorrent. But should gov't be used to stop it? I don't know. This is an issue I go back and forth on often when the topic comes up. Often why I don't chime in on places like this.

Borders? Immigration needs a complete and total revamping, as does the welfare state. Immigrating is too restrictive and takes way too much time and money. Things a lot of people can't afford. And those are good people who only want to come here for the opportunity to work hard and better their life and that of their families. Sure, there are some that may end up finding ways to abuse the welfare system, but you can say the same damn thing for a lot of natural born Americans. The welfare system is a much bigger issue than immigration, legal or illegal. People coming here to work isn't a bad thing.

Antifa? Damn, that hasn't been a major issue for two years. I'm not even sure if I was posting on the board during that or not. I want to say I came back after the bulk of that was done, but I could be wrong. Rioting in general is bad. These people hurt those that they claimed to care about. Most of their thoughts and actions were bullshit that they tried to camouflage into something more important. Most people didn't buy it. I'm not sure what you're actually wanting from this one?

So there you are, and I look forward to you misquoting these thoughts and taking them out of context to spin some strange narrative that you'll develop in your head. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with, even if it is illogical and irrelevant to anything I've ever actually expressed.

[WstateU]

[Kung Wu]

If I make a horrible mistake that ruins someones life I'm going to pay for it, but many with a badge keep their jobs and get promotions afterwards and are continually protected, which makes it harder for good cops to do their jobs as it creates more distrust in communities.

You are the first cop to arrive in an active shooter situation on a downtown street -- a few civilians are laying on the ground shot, but most have fled. You peak around the corner of a building and there is a gang-banger looking dude -- somewhat in the open -- shooting, what do you do?

[SubGod22]

You are the first cop to arrive in an active shooter situation on a downtown street -- a few civilians are laying on the ground shot, but most have fled. You peak around the corner of a building and there is a gang-banger looking dude -- somewhat in the open -- shooting, what do you do?

What/Who is he shooting at? Are they returning fire?

Or I could be like the Colorado cops that responded to a similar situation and shot dead the man who took down the active shooter and just start firing at the first person I see that may be carrying a gun.

One must assess the full situation and not just run in guns blazing at the first sign of a gun. Am I on high alert? Yes. Is he the shooter? You haven't provided enough information for me to know that in the scenario so I can't say. From the information you've given me, I don't know if he's the shooter or firing in self defense.

[Kung Wu]

What/Who is he shooting at? Are they returning fire?

Or I could be like the Colorado cops that responded to a similar situation and shot dead the man who took down the active shooter and just start firing at the first person I see that may be carrying a gun.

One must assess the full situation and not just run in guns blazing at the first sign of a gun. Am I on high alert? Yes. Is he the shooter? You haven't provided enough information for me to know that in the scenario so I can't say. From the information you've given me, I don't know if he's the shooter or firing in self defense.

Don't know, but while you are taking your time assessing the situation he just shot what appears to be a cop.

[SubGod22]

Don't know, but while you are taking your time assessing the situation he just shot what appears to be a cop.

So because you failed to provide a complete scenario, you're going to fault my decision to assess?

You must feel the cops in Colorado were justified in gunning down the good Samaritan just because he had a gun in his possession? He wasn't actively firing and was never commanded to drop the weapon or anything. Had they assessed the situation, the hero would still be alive.

And any cop that goes into a situation where they don't know what's going on and just start firing at the first person who may or may not be a threat shouldn't have a badge.

We hold soldiers in actual combat to a much higher level of accountability and stricter rules of engagement than we do the police.

If you want to provide a scenario, don't make it a faulty one that lacks important information. If someone is firing, it should be pretty obvious if someone is firing back or not. You chose to withhold that information to make for an incomplete scenario.

[Kung Wu]

So because you failed to provide a complete scenario, you're going to fault my decision to assess?

If you want to provide a scenario, don't make it a faulty one that lacks important information. If someone is firing, it should be pretty obvious if someone is firing back or not. You chose to withhold that information to make for an incomplete scenario.

Okay how about this one:

You are standing in a hallway outside the door of a classroom in a school where many children have been shot. You know the perp is inside the room and heavily armed. You do not know where the perp is in the classroom, if the door is being covered by him should you breach it, or if he will shoot more children if you breach it. What do you do?

[SubGod22]

Okay how about this one:

You are standing in a hallway outside the door of a classroom in a school where many children have been shot. You know the perp is inside the room and heavily armed. You do not know where the perp is in the classroom, if the door is being covered by him should you breach it, or if he will shoot more children if you breach it. What do you do?

You do your best to assess the situation and have an educated guess as to where the shooter is located. In the scenario you're referencing, much like Uvalde, I and my associates are well armed and have body armor. You collect all of the info you can, which shouldn't take long, as far as layout and likeliest of places the shooter is located. Most classroom doors I remember have windows in them, so you should have a good idea of what things look like in short order. You then breach and take care of business. If there is a window in the door, you can eliminate much of the room if you can't see him.

If there isn't a window in the door, is this a classroom with windows to the outside? You get some sort of spotter out there to identify as much as possible so you have as much information as possible before going in.

If there are no windows anywhere, which I've never personally seen in a school, you can still get a basic layout in relatively quick order. With even the slightest bit of tactical training, which I don't personally have, but many officers do from either their time on the force or from their timed in the armed forces, you can breach and still take him down relatively quickly.

Children have already been shot so I'm not waiting around forever. We're going in as soon as we have what we need to know. Odds are, if the shooter opens fire again, it will be at us breaching the door and not at the remaining children. I'll risk taking a bullet over allowing the shooter more time to shoot more kids.

None of that takes anywhere close to an hour or more.

[wufan]

You are the first cop to arrive in an active shooter situation on a downtown street -- a few civilians are laying on the ground shot, but most have fled. You peak around the corner of a building and there is a gang-banger looking dude -- somewhat in the open -- shooting, what do you do?

You have to verify what he’s shooting at first. Could be a good guy with a gun.

[wufan]

Don't know, but while you are taking your time assessing the situation he just shot what appears to be a cop.

I think you need to know who the threat is before you return deadly threat.

In such a scenario, the more people that are armed, the more likely you are to neutralize a threat in a short amount of time.

[Kung Wu]

You have to verify what he’s shooting at first. Could be a good guy with a gun.

Exactly.

[Kung Wu]

I think you need to know who the threat is before you return deadly threat.

Agree to agree.

[RoyalShock]

I have little to add, except that reading these hypothetical situations gave me 80s flashbacks to text adventure computer games.