Any Trump fans getting tired...

[ShockerFever]

If you look at nearly every situation where there's public outcry, it's when a man (black) gets shot unarmed. It truly is a less than noble action when looked at historically. In the Wild West you DID NOT shoot an unarmed man. Somebody gave the dude a gun if he didn't have one. I have no problem with a law that states if there are multiple officers present, and the perp doesn't have a gun/knife, it is illegal to shoot him unless he has you on your back and your life truly is in danger. We should not see "firing squad" displays on Youtube. It's barbaric. Just electrocute the mother****er until he fills his pants. Then carry him to jail until he has his day in court. Justice served.

And under your rules, when the taser fails, let the guy walk into a convenience store, take a bunch of hostages at knife point and roll the good ol dice. Clearly a better option.

How about instead you do what the eff you’re told by law enforcement? If that happens, nobody dies. Period. And better yet, don’t break the law in the first place and you won’t even have to sniff the bacon.

[C0|dB|00ded]

If you look at nearly every situation where there's public outcry, it's when a man (black) gets shot unarmed. It truly is a less than noble action when looked at historically. In the Wild West you DID NOT shoot an unarmed man. Somebody gave the dude a gun if he didn't have one. I have no problem with a law that states if there are multiple officers present, and the perp doesn't have a gun/knife, it is illegal to shoot him unless he has you on your back and your life truly is in danger. We should not see "firing squad" displays on Youtube. It's barbaric. Just electrocute the mother****er until he fills his pants. Then carry him to jail until he has his day in court. Justice served.

[C0|dB|00ded]

At least two studies disagree:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...35109706014513

http://jaapl.org/content/44/2/213

A person on drugs who is either hallucinating or having dulled sensory perceptions can absolutely "ignore" a tase or withstand it for a longer period of time, rendering it ineffective in a critical situation where time is of the essence.

You can't "ignore" physics. If the taser makes positive contact with a conductive part of your body, intramuscular disruption will occur (you will start to seize). Now there are taser gun "failures" all the time. If the little prong doesn't penetrate the bad guy's puffy Raider's jacket, the only thing he will be left with is a puzzled expression. This doesn't happen with handhelds. I can jam that thing against dude's arm with or without his jacket and he will be positively shitting himself for the next 15 mins.

Now drugs can absolutely affect the response of a suspect after being shot. In the vast majority of cases, a perp has to "choose" to exit the fight after being shot. They are in no way incapacitated. Add in PCP or something similar and you may have just pissed them off further. This supports the firing squad theory when a group of officers all let loose of their sidearm at (many times) an unarmed dude. It's very bad optics. And as I said before, quite barbaric. Electricity is a very capable method for subduing anybody. We just need better technology, delivery methods, and training.

Revisiting my earlier comment about voltage regulations... I found the taser I bought many years ago.

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-...ck%20clothing.

What is the most powerful Taser in the world?
The Vipertek VTS-989 is one of the most widely recommended stun guns on the market. It's incredibly powerful with a voltage of 300 million, making it the strongest stun gun on this list. The electrodes are sharp spikes designed to penetrate through thick clothing.

Looks like it's still the best! Of course CB did his homework and equipped his woman with the best. ;)

There will be no "ignoring" this mother****er.

[ShockerFever]

The problem with the BLM movement (and I think someone already alluded to this) is they feel the perp has a right to make the first move (take the first shot) and police should only be reactionary. That’s a complete irrational line of thinking and I would only ask that movement to put themselves in the reversed situation and see how they handled it.

As with the Wisconsin incident, how do we know the suspect wasn’t going to his car to retrieve his weapon? I just find it impossible for a police officer to shoot a guy for just going to sit in his car and have a smoke or because he’s just black. And once again, the hip thing to do is react on Twitter without any evidence presented for their actions, jump to conclusions, and then riot and destroy neighborhoods because of a few guys’ potentially dumb actions.

This society is essentially hot garbage just waiting for an excuse to cause chaos and “do whatever the **** we want”.

[ShockerFever]

Or the dude was just whacked out of his mind on something and a taser wasn't going to stop him.

Kinda reminds me of something that happened in Minnesota a few months ago.

[ShockerFever]

The guy in Lafayette was tackled, but got away and was headed for his car.

The Philando Castile video was pretty close to following commands and got shot. Black man shot by a Hispanic cop.

About 4 years ago some cops shot a drunk guy in a hotel that was pleading for his life. His pants were falling down and he was trying to pull them up and they shot him. White victim, white cop.

There was the swatting incident in Wichita where the guy came out on his porch and they shot him. Don’t know which of the two dozen cops shot the white guy.

White guys get shot accidentally by police. Black guys get shot intentionally because they’re black. The black guys never do anything wrong and should be granted lifetime immunity from, well, anything.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Incorrect. Tasers disrupt communication in the CNS. They cannot be "ignored". The only time a taser fails is user error or clothing. Clothing isn't an issue with handheld devices. But we don't want to ask LEO's to get up close and personal with a knife-wielding loon. They need some sort of handheld+extension. You get 3 cops circling a fool with that setup and homeboy's gonna **** his pants. Good news is he'll live to see his day in court and perhaps make a life change.

At least two studies disagree:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...35109706014513

http://jaapl.org/content/44/2/213

A person on drugs who is either hallucinating or having dulled sensory perceptions can absolutely "ignore" a tase or withstand it for a longer period of time, rendering it ineffective in a critical situation where time is of the essence.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Or the dude was just whacked out of his mind on something and a taser wasn't going to stop him.

Incorrect. Tasers disrupt communication in the CNS. They cannot be "ignored". The only time a taser fails is user error or clothing. Clothing isn't an issue with handheld devices. But we don't want to ask LEO's to get up close and personal with a knife-wielding loon. They need some sort of handheld+extension. You get 3 cops circling a fool with that setup and homeboy's gonna **** his pants. Good news is he'll live to see his day in court and perhaps make a life change.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Well, they used a taser on this guy and he didn't stay down. The problem is tasers don't always work, and if the "perp" is on certain drugs, the taser is even less effective."

Incorrect. A proper tasing will render a person helpless within seconds. Positive contact with a taser will incapacitate a perp light years faster than a bullet (unless it hits the CNS).

He was also charged with a variety of felonies (don't know if he's still awaiting trial on those or not). In Kenosha, I suspect it's highly likely the officers have either been there before or know of this guy and his history. This was most definitely NOT a first time visit with a man "breaking up a fight" and being shot while being black.
"

That's fine if they know his history. But they are not judge, jury, and executioner. Police officers deserve to go home to their families at night just like the rest of us, but I do believe they abuse the choice of lethal force often. They need better taser weaponry and better training on how to use it. There's a possibility that they need to be authorized for higher voltages. I have heard that civilian tasers are more powerful than LEO, but don't quote me on that. The one I tried (that I bought off Ebay) was absolutely no joke. I briefly touched my finger tip and it felt like I got hit with a hammer. I was clammy and anxious for 30 mins afterwards. If you hold that level of taser on someone for 15 seconds they will be on the ground incapacitated for 10+ minutes. Plenty of time to handcuff them (or run away).

Shooting someone is messy and barbaric and NEVER looks good on camera. Civilians will never understand the pressure LEO's are under when attempting to engage a psycho. They need an effective solution for gaining compliance out of a suspect so they can be processed in the courts. I believe electrocution is the best solution we have by far. More people will survive, and cops won't be feared as killers any longer. Hell, I think we'd be able to take guns away from the average beat cop with enough taser/mace/baton training.

[C0|dB|00ded]

In the case in Lafayette, the use of tasers was ineffective as it likely didn’t pierce the skin at two points. That is unfortunate.

There are a lot of solutions with taser technology that aren't being utilized. There are also new technologies that could be developed. If police would go to a "no firearm unless engaging shooter at a distance policy" advancements would occur rapidly. Traditional tasers on extendable rods could be an alternative. They were using long-range tasters (projectiles) and occasionally they will not penetrate the clothing. There are many solutions to this dilemma. Handheld tasers do not suffer the contact issues of taser guns. Electrocuting the CNS is extremely effective compared to bullets with regards to "stopping a threat".

As it stands, a taser is just a backup to the pistol. It needs to be the other way around IMO.

[WuDrWu]

Well, they used a taser on this guy and he didn't stay down. The problem is tasers don't always work, and if the "perp" is on certain drugs, the taser is even less effective.

I don't believe anyone is against more effective and widely distributed less lethal and non lethal methods of "perp" control.

I did a quick search on this "victim". He was involved in an eerily similar event last year. He had a weapon. He threatened people. That event ended with him being taken down by a K9.


https://racinecountyeye.com/police-k...ed-gun-at-bar/



He was also charged with a variety of felonies (don't know if he's still awaiting trial on those or not). In Kenosha, I suspect it's highly likely the officers have either been there before or know of this guy and his history. This was most definitely NOT a first time visit with a man "breaking up a fight" and being shot while being black.

Officers were called to the area for a domestic problem. I don't want anyone to die, but the LAST person I want dying are the people called to help with someone else's problem (cops).


Too many people seem to want to ignore the fact there are bad people out there that don't want to follow rules. THAT is the problem. I'm all ears on how to fix it.

Here's an example of what can happen when police don't use lethal force (and another example of a taser not working as well as you would want):

https://www.foxnews.com/us/harrowing...r-traffic-stop


"

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

In the case in Lafayette, the use of tasers was ineffective as it likely didn’t pierce the skin at two points. That is unfortunate.

Or the dude was just whacked out of his mind on something and a taser wasn't going to stop him.

[pinstripers]

Not dropping the knife was a bad decision

[wufan]

The unofficial statement will be that the officers fired because they felt their lives (or the lives of others) were in danger. They stopped firing when the threat was neutralized.

There was a period of time when I did extensive research into terminal ballistics, officer involved shootings, and all the variables that affect an outcome during (auditory processing disorder, muscle memory, reflexes, stress etc.) I can say that a man with a knife is considered more dangerous from 25ft than a man with a gun. I can go into details if you like.

But... I have a problem with lethal use of force to "stop threats".

Here's some inside info: When officer's decide to fire, they will all usually fire at once. This obfuscates the person that actually "killed" the perp. This also ensures the perp will drop. Bullets are sent from different origins at volumes rivaling an automatic weapon. Now, the time at which the shootee ('sup wufan!) receives medical attention is the determining factor upon whether or not they survive. The vast majority of shooting deaths are due to blood loss. You will normally not see officer's offer much care for extended periods - even after handcuffing the now unconscious perp. Even in CCL class, the instructor (usually a cop) laughs as he instructs his students to "shoot to kill" because nobody wants a trial... dead guys can't sue.

So yeah, when you see a group of cops shower a drunken, many times mentally disturbed individual with bullets, there are a few reasons for that.

Here's the problem I have with this method of force. It isn't nearly as "effective" as tasering. And cops, because the resourceful little devils that they are, have already implemented the "multi-taser" approach (only a few fatalities with this method). I have used a taser on my own finger and believe me when I tell you this... you will go down. Dropping a perp with a gun is actually not as easy as you see in the movies. It can actually have the opposite effect. Most gunshot victims "choose" to exit the fight. They don't die or are incapacitated immediately (unless the CNS is struck which is rare). There have been perps with 20+ gunshot wounds who have gone on to survive.

Electrocution, "short-circuits" the CNS from almost any point in the body. It is far more effective and user-friendly. But nobody dies.

When I offer advice to my lady friends, it is always to forgo the pistol for the taser. It's just so much easier to implement, more effective as a deterrent (threat stopper), and you don't get innocent people shot.

A final point on police training: most police train at the range only to pass their periodic qualification test (sometimes as infrequent as once per year). They also (as a general rule) don't maintain their weapons as they should. Nationally, their target hit-rate in OIS is around 30%. That means a lot of bullets are sprayed in places not meant to be sprayed. This is another reason tasers would be a better choice.

In the case in Lafayette, the use of tasers was ineffective as it likely didn’t pierce the skin at two points. That is unfortunate.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I do believe we've gone off-topic on the Trump thread. I'm not gonna accuse anybody of thread-shitting but... maybe all the shooting posts should be moved into a shooting thread? Just sayin'...