Another School Shooting

[ShockTalk]

I would just add that it is necessary for an individual to protect him/herself and their property. Relying on the police for PROTECTION is a bad idea. Laws that take away your right to legally defend yourself in any situation are a bad idea.

That doesn’t mean that police can’t do better protecting us. Posting police in at risk neighborhoods would go a long way. With that, however, we need to decriminalize victimless crimes as much as possible.

The tricky slope of victimless crimes.

[ShockerFever]

The tricky slope of victimless crimes.

Remind me what are examples of victimless crimes?

[MoValley John]

Remind me what are examples of victimless crimes?

Jaywalking.

[Kung Wu]

Jaywalking.

But jaywalking can cause drivers to have to suddenly veer into other cars or people, slam on their breaks causing accidents, and even have to cope with accidentally killing someone. If none of that ever occurred, there would be no purpose for a jaywalking law.

[wufan]

Remind me what are examples of victimless crimes?

How about gambling, possession of drug paraphernalia, or tinted windows?

Carrying $10000 in cash across state lines, distilling whiskey, cutting hair without a license?

[MoValley John]

How about gambling, possession of drug paraphernalia, or tinted windows?

Carrying $10000 in cash across state lines, distilling whiskey, cutting hair without a license?

Ive had baaaad haircuts from unlicensed hacks.

[MoValley John]

I think you have to refine "victimless crime" to "relatively victimless" crime.

[SubGod22]

Ive had baaaad haircuts from unlicensed hacks.

I've had bad haircuts from licensed hacks.

[Kung Wu]

How about gambling, possession of drug paraphernalia, or tinted windows?

Carrying $10000 in cash across state lines, distilling whiskey, cutting hair without a license?

Gambling isn't always a crime. But a key reason it is, is because gamblers are unknowingly cheated out of (sometimes very large amounts of) money.

Distilling whiskey circumvents oversight and can lead to serious injury and illness.

Stylists that have invested lots of money in education and safety lose recovery revenue when non-licensed stylists work under the table as a profession.

Some of those arguments are varying degrees of crappy, but they aren't nothing either.

[SubGod22]

Gambling isn't always a crime. But a key reason it is, is because gamblers are unknowingly cheated out of (sometimes very large amounts of) money.
That would fall under fraud and shouldn't effect all gambling. I also hate laws/regulations that heavily restrict specific things because a few people have abused it. Punish abuse and not all of the people who choose to willfully take certain risks or those that provide those risks on an honest level. Fraud is bad. Gambling is a willful choice.

Distilling whiskey circumvents oversight and can lead to serious injury and illness.
It's has more to do with government control and wanting their cut. As long as people know you haven't gone through a certain process again, people should be able to choose what risks they're willing to take. And if you haven't gone through certain hoops maybe you're open to more liability. For me, it still comes down to personal choice is more important that the government lining their pockets and/or controlling what people are allowed to do. Hell, regulated businesses put out products that lead to serious injury and illness. They're still generally protected from legal action because of the hoops they go through. Those that don't jump through certain hoops wouldn't be allowed such protections. Still gives people choices.

Stylists that have invested lots of money in education and safety lose recovery revenue when non-licensed stylists work under the table as a profession.
People could choose if they wanted to go to a licensed or unlicensed stylist. Unlicensed stylist would charge less and maybe be a riskier proposition. Licensed ones charge more but people feel more comfortable with. It should still come down to giving people the choice to decide what risks they're willing to take. But the big reason for the licensing process is again so the government can charge you for the ability to do your job and then you have to renew that every so often so they can get more.

Some of those arguments are varying degrees of crappy, but they aren't nothing either.

[Shockm]

The other day, a large tree limb from our neighbor's yard was blown off by the high winds/rains into our yard (it happens all the time). Because it was his limb, it made me angry, so even though I was responsible to clean it up, I threw it back into his yard. I'm lucky he didn't see me, or he might have come after me with a gun, and caused a gunfight in our neighborhood where we have few if any police. The ensuing gunfight could have killed one of the kids playing in our neighborhood, or I might have got into my car and raced away at a high rate of speed, causing a wreck and killing a few people.

Was not cleaning up the neighbor's tree trash that was in my own yard, a victimless crime? It could have been serious.

[Kung Wu]

That would fall under fraud and shouldn't effect all gambling. I also hate laws/regulations that heavily restrict specific things because a few people have abused it. Punish abuse and not all of the people who choose to willfully take certain risks or those that provide those risks on an honest level. Fraud is bad. Gambling is a willful choice.

Nevada agrees with you while Utah and Hawaii don't. Also fraud isn't the only problem with gambling. Gambling definitely attracts criminals to a community and some communities don't want to deal with that. Acts of gambling may be mostly victimless, but it definitely increases victim-oriented crime wherever it's allowed. That's not always a strong enough argument for not doing it, but it's a factor every time it's brought up because it's a real problem that follows gambling.

[ShockTalk]

There is no doubt that some "victimless" crimes are less harmful than others.

Speeding was mentioned. If someone continues to speed unchecked or minimized, it can easily lead to death of someone else and it would happen more often than it already does.

[wufan]

Gambling isn't always a crime. But a key reason it is, is because gamblers are unknowingly cheated out of (sometimes very large amounts of) money.

Distilling whiskey circumvents oversight and can lead to serious injury and illness.

Stylists that have invested lots of money in education and safety lose recovery revenue when non-licensed stylists work under the table as a profession.

Some of those arguments are varying degrees of crappy, but they aren't nothing either.

“May/can lead to”…

proliferation of guns may lead to death. Is a “may lead to” standard something you want upheld? Maybe you do, but I do not.

[wufan]

The other day, a large tree limb from our neighbor's yard was blown off by the high winds/rains into our yard (it happens all the time). Because it was his limb, it made me angry, so even though I was responsible to clean it up, I threw it back into his yard. I'm lucky he didn't see me, or he might have come after me with a gun, and caused a gunfight in our neighborhood where we have few if any police. The ensuing gunfight could have killed one of the kids playing in our neighborhood, or I might have got into my car and raced away at a high rate of speed, causing a wreck and killing a few people.

Was not cleaning up the neighbor's tree trash that was in my own yard, a victimless crime? It could have been serious.

It’s illegal to do all the things mentioned. The only way to live in harmony is to make trees illegal. Then we can arrest people in possession of pine cones.